From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: LINUX is obsolete
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1992 16:00:22 GMT
In article <1992Feb5.145630.759@wpi.WPI.EDU> entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence
C. Foard) writes:
> Actually my main problem with OS theorists is that they have never tested
> there ideas!
I beg to differ... there are many microkernel operating systems out there
for everything from an 8088 (QNX) up to large research systems.
> None of these ideas (with a partial exception for MACH) has ever
> seen the light of day. 32 bit home computers have been available for almost a
> decade and Linus was the first person to ever write a working OS for them
> that can be used without paying AT&T $100,000.
I must have been imagining AmigaOS, then. I've been using a figment of my
imagination for the past 6 years.
AmigaOS is a microkernel message-passing design, with better response time
and performance than any other readily available PC operating system: including
MINIX, OS/2, Windows, MacOS, Linux, UNIX, and *certainly* MS-DOS.
The microkernel design has proven invaluable. Things like new file systems
that are normally available only from the vendor are hobbyist products on
the Amiga. Device drivers are simply shared libraries and tasks with specific
entry points and message ports. So are file systems, the window system, and
so on. It's a WONDERFUL design, and validates everything that people have
been saying about microkernels. Yes, it takes more work to get them off the
ground than a coroutine based macrokernel like UNIX, but the versatility
pays you back many times over.
I really wish Andy would do a new MINIX based on what has been learned since
the first release. The factoring of responsibilities in MINIX is fairly poor,
but the basic concept is good.
> The general consensus that Micro kernels is the way to go means nothing when
> a real application has never even run on one.
I'm dreaming again. I sure throught Deluxe Paint, Sculpt 3d, Photon Paint,
Manx C, Manx SDB, Perfect Sound, Videoscape 3d, and the other programs I
bought for my Amiga were "real". I'll have to send the damn things back now,
I guess.
The availability of Linux is great. I'm delighted it exists. I'm sure that
the macrokernel design is one reason it has been implemented so fast, and this
is a valid reason to use macrokernels. BUT... this doesn't mean that
microkernels are inherently slow, or simply research toys.
From: dsmythe@netcom.COM (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: LINUX is obsolete
Date: 10 Feb 92 07:08:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
In article <1992Feb5.145630.759@wpi.WPI.EDU> entropy@wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence
C. Foard) writes:
>Actually my main problem with OS theorists is that they have never tested
>there ideas! None of these ideas (with a partial exception for MACH) has ever
>seen the light of day.
David Cheriton (Prof. at Stanford, and author of the V system) said something
similar to this in a class in distributed systems. Paraphrased:
"There are two kinds of researchers: those that have implemented
something and those that have not. The latter will tell you that
there are 142 ways of doing things and that there isn't consensus
on which is best. The former will simply tell you that 141 of
them don't work."
He really rips on the OSI-philes as well, for a similar reason. The Internet
protocols are adapted only after having been in use for a period of time,
preventing things from getting standardized that will never be implementable
in a reasonable fashion. OSI adherents, on the other hand, seem intent on
standardizing everything possible, including "escapes" from the standard,
before a reasonable reference implementation exists. Consequently, you see
obsolete ideas immortalized, such as sub-byte-level data field packing,
which makes good performance difficult when your computer is drinking from
a 10+ Gbs fire-hose :-).
Just my $.02
D
Razvan Mihaiu � 2000 - 2024 Linux history